Curse

menelik_seth · Mar 16, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

I think the armors are fine as is. The armors proposed are horrendously overpowered, IMHO. If anything, I think it should be +20 conditional AL to the element of your choice.
Since +40 AL is half damage, at 20 this would be about 75% damage from the source of the armor you're wearing. I say that's pretty fair, no?
Also, ele defense spells do not suck. You must be using them wrong :P

The problems with numbers is that they can look good on paper; but thats it. In the end of the day, even warriors cannot tank higher level areas alone; AL alone wont help you survive; this is where ur skills come into play...

I get that the elementalist armor isn't really meant to let you "tank". There wouldn't be a need for Warriors/Rangers if they could; this is why I'm not requesting for a higher AL.

My complaint is: Is that it?

Why shell out the plats for an armor set that offers only a mere extra conditional +15 AL; sure it helps a bit, I'm not denying that... but that alone isn't enough imo. It's kinda pointless especially when Elementalists have such great defensive skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Besides, Elementalists have arguably the WORST armor since none of them are unconditional. For example, Monks have +5 vs all elemental, +15 vs. physical and mesmers have +15 while casting and +10 vs. physical sets

This is exactly my point. Heck, I wouldn't mind there being tradeoffs for the unconditional bonuses: They could make each set weaker against its opposing element: e.g. The Pyromancer Set could reduce burning, but take extra dmg from Water Magic. At least that would make the non-specialized set useful as well: It offers no bonuses, but offers no weaknesses either...

The new elemental sets could very well render the old one obsolete; but this won't be the case for the other professions. I have friends who are still investing in fissure for their old sets because they see how they would still need them even in chapter two...

EDIT:

Just noticed the two extra posts above me:

I like your idea Kool pajamas

Sure, geomancers can currently tank; but this would definitly make the job seem more "natural" as u put it. Plus it would allow a bit of role changing; giving warriors a chance to play other roles in pve instead of the primary tank. This could be very interesting if implemented; and I would definitly invest in such a set.

Phoenix Avenger · Mar 16, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Lately there have been a lot of "elementalist arent powerful enough" topics. So why not make the specific armor sets aid to spell damage? Such as for each piece of armor that is pyromancer, you get +5 damage whenever you do fire damage (and the same for the other elements).

menelik_seth · Mar 16, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Phoenix Avenger,

TBH m8, I dont necessarily agree with said topics. I find the elementalist powerful enough. Heck, thats what runes and weapon mods are for...

I'm not complaining about lack of power, or vulnerablility. I think eles fit very well in the gw world.

I'm just not satisfied with the lack of flexibility the current armor sets offer. +15 AL vs fire dmg isn't at all exciting (with all due respect to the devs)

I'm say this because as I play more with my other chars (necro being my current pet project), I find myself actually farming to buy armor for them, and enjoying playing them with different builds that make use of the various armor sets... I'm just not getting that kind of joy out of my ele, and its dissapointing me because this is my favorite character to play.

Heck, reduce the base AL lol... just give the core sets a lil something else "happening" yknow?

Undivine · Mar 16, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Although your suggestions sound nice, here's something you have to consider: The leutenant's helm is just 1 helm that affects all hexes. It has the same effect as a piece of Ascalon armor, and the mesmer's +15 AL while casting. You only need to wear 1 peice of the armor and its effect is global.

Some of the suggestions you made don't account for the apparent difficulty ANet has been having with these sorts of armors. Imagine an ele that wears a piece from each armor and gains the benefit of all of them.

This is not an objection to your suggestion. Just reminding you of some of the problems.

dreamhunk · Mar 17, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

ok if elementals can not get good stats they should get nicer armor. I think that is only fare.

This type of armor could only be done to elementals armor. they are perfect for for my idea. Ok here is the deal.

ok say your a fire elemental it would be cool if your armor was on fire always.(or even partly on fire)

If your air your armor shimmers like it is there and not here.

If your a water elemental your armor is flowing with water

ok for earth you would have moving lava animation on the armor or make the armor like it is dusty all the time.

well it was idea i had. giving elementals animations to their armor.

menelik_seth · Mar 17, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

Although your suggestions sound nice, here's something you have to consider: The leutenant's helm is just 1 helm that affects all hexes. It has the same effect as a piece of Ascalon armor, and the mesmer's +15 AL while casting. You only need to wear 1 peice of the armor and its effect is global.

Some of the suggestions you made don't account for the apparent difficulty ANet has been having with these sorts of armors. Imagine an ele that wears a piece from each armor and gains the benefit of all of them.

This is not an objection to your suggestion. Just reminding you of some of the problems.

I see what ur sayin m8. I'm not denyin that it'll be complicated, but I'm sure something could be worked out. I'm not saying that my suggestions are "this is how its going to go, or else forget it" lol... Maybe my ideas should be nerfed some how?

I dunno? Maybe they could make it location based; or tie in percentages or something...

The thing is, the sets could use some oomph somehow; I'm all open to other suggestions...

****

Those are some awesome suggestions dreamhunk

it would prolly kill the framerates on me ol' datamini

but it would look sweeeet

I actually had a totally different vision for the elementalist; and since I'm a 3DS hobbyist I figured I'd slap together a few concepts for the ele as I see it (just for kicks)... I'll post em up here as I get around to doin it

LightningHell · Mar 17, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

Oh yeah, the ele doesn't have +energy armor due to energy storage. If you *really* want some extra energy, try the Nolani Collectors wand.

But the other classes have non-attribute-dependant additional Energy that we don't have. PLUS we have the most energy straining spells EVAR.

Winterclaw · Mar 17, 2006, 07:05 AM // 07:05

An easier way to improce el's armor is to either make it better than warrior's against one element. That means the hydromancer's armor would be +40 versus cold damage at least.

A slightly more difficult thing to implement but would give a similar effect would be to consider all skills that use those elements against you as 4 levels lower (min 0) than what they actually are.

A third thing would be to give elementalists staves and wands that protect against that element in addition to giving energy. They'd be like a shield against that element. +40AL from your armor and another +20 from an artifact would make like elementalists have a really tough time against you.

menelik_seth · Mar 17, 2006, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

An easier way to improce el's armor is to either make it better than warrior's against one element. That means the hydromancer's armor would be +40 versus cold damage at least.

A slightly more difficult thing to implement but would give a similar effect would be to consider all skills that use those elements against you as 4 levels lower (min 0) than what they actually are.

A third thing would be to give elementalists staves and wands that protect against that element in addition to giving energy. They'd be like a shield against that element. +40AL from your armor and another +20 from an artifact would make like elementalists have a really tough time against you.

Well it sounds like ur suggesting to make the elementalist armor as strong as the rangers vs elements?

I dunno. I wasn't suggesting anything to make them stronger; because I thought that might upset the balance of the game, making them akin to rangers. I just thought they could use an additional bonus.

Regarding weapons, I think the current wepon mods are enough.

And regarding elementalist energy, I think our energy pool is high enough as it is. Using the proper skills, and good pacing, my energy bar never dips below 50% (even while echoing meteorshower)... oh and there's those obsecne +15 energy wands/ artifacts that can help in tight situations lol

Just wish the armor wasn't so boring...

Bob of Maple Ave · Mar 17, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Although I wouldn't mind seeing this come into effect in some way, I don't think that getting different armor is really the solution. It seems like it's getting elementalists further and further away from being what they were supposed to be--magic users, not tanks.

They're problem is that they're skills are weak. They're supposed to do a lot of damage in exchange for weaker armor (and more vulnerablity). Instead, they do mediocre damage at a higher cost and have weaker armor. There have been numerous threads posted in the recent past, with much number-crunching done.

If I wanted to play a tank, I would've played a tank. I do like the idea of having added power by wearing a certain kind of armor...but more because I like the idea of added power than anything else.

For the record, I'm playing a necro now and it just blows my ele out of the water.

Winterclaw · Mar 17, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by menelik_seth

Well it sounds like ur suggesting to make the elementalist armor as strong as the rangers vs elements?

I dunno. I wasn't suggesting anything to make them stronger; because I thought that might upset the balance of the game, making them akin to rangers. I just thought they could use an additional bonus.

Menelik, I'd only want to make them really strong in reguards to one element.

In fact looking at the ranger armor, half of their sets have the bonuses of elementalist armors and one has the bonus of gladiators. However the standard one has +30AL vs Elemental (I'm assuming this means all) so overall, he'd have better protection.

jummeth · Mar 17, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Thing is atm, there is no bouns for wearing aeromancer armour when you are an aeromancer. That'll be nice, like a guy said at the bottom of the prev page.

Give them a small boost when you have 12 air attrib or something. Atm there is no correlation. It just sounds a bit silly. Like around the siverpeaks I would run around in hydromancer armour but I actually use earth and fire spells. So... I am *NOT* a hydromancer...

I also think that the armours are not different enough, if it is nice looking or heck interesting, I might think about forking out to buy different sets, but atm, they are just like the others but with different colour schemes... you got dyes for that.

menelik_seth · Mar 17, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob of Maple Ave

If I wanted to play a tank, I would've played a tank. I do like the idea of having added power by wearing a certain kind of armor...but more because I like the idea of added power than anything else.

For the record, I'm playing a necro now and it just blows my ele out of the water.

Well I'll have to check those threads out because frankly, I have no complains about the Elementalist's damage dealing. For what I use him as, the damage he deals is fine. I wouldn't compare elementalist dmg to necro dmg; oranges to apples if you ask me… but this is a topic for another discussion.

Your getting my point tho. If I wanted to tank, I wouldn't bring the Elementalist. Again I'm not calling to make the Elementalist armor stronger: I'm doin fine with my collector's armor+defensive skills. The specialized armor could just use some bonuses to make it more worth while.

For example: The Pryomancer Set, with reduced burning, would still take the same dmg vs. fire magic as it always does; but it would also help against Immolate, Incendiary Bonds or Mark of Rodgort (which are the scarier spells of the Fire line). This is how I believe the Pryomancer set should behave. The +15 AL just isn't enough for it to be a set that provides "the best protection against fire".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Menelik, I'd only want to make them really strong in reguards to one element.

In fact looking at the ranger armor, half of their sets have the bonuses of elementalist armors and one has the bonus of gladiators. However the standard one has +30AL vs Elemental (I'm assuming this means all) so overall, he'd have better protection.

I see what ur sayin. So Elementalists wouldn't be able to necessarily tank on AL alone (like a ranger could); but the protection would be significantly better.

I agree, that would be an improvement. When I was thinking about ways to better the current "core" sets, that was the first thing that came to mind. But then I thought; perhaps the devs reduced the conditional AL for a purpose. Maybe I'll have to think of other improvements to suggest... This is when I thought of bonuses that would help against conditions that relate to each element:

-Burning for fire

- Hexes for water (ala Lieutenant's helm)

- KD for Earth

- Armor penetration for Air (or chance to dodge magical projectile)

Now there could be ways to balance it. Making it either location based, or tie in percentages so that one piece alone doesn't give the full bonus… I dunno…

But if it turns out that simply upping the conditional AL is the most straightforward, and balance-friendly solution; then I'm for it.

EDIT:

Jummeth, I think you're confusing the role of the armor vs. the role of the head-stones.

The Armor is just there to protect you from the element it provides the extra AL against. So naturally the pyro set protects against fire; hydro against water; geo against earth; and aero against air.

The head-stones, however, boosts the magic attribute by +1. So if you're a Hydromancer; you'd wear the Glacier's Eye, regardless of what armor your using.

So say you're a water mage in ROF. You'd wear the Glacier's Eye to boost your water magic; but then you'd wear the pyro armor to give you protection against fire... Or if ur a E/R you can bring along Grater Conflag + Winter... then wear ur hydro set...

The armor you wear doesn't reflect the magic you use; it only reflects the element u seek protection from. And currently the sets don't provide much protection from anything, save for a few hits…

jummeth · Mar 17, 2006, 08:12 PM // 20:12

I'm just commenting on the fact that its called "Pyromancer's Armour" "hydromancer's Armour" ... indicating ownership.

But I just want some additional attribute that if you are that particular ele, then you get a small extra boost. I'm not saying +1 in w/e attribute or anything.

menelik_seth · Mar 17, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Ahhhh I get it.

So basically a person who uses the magic that matches the armor gets rewarded for it... Interesting.

For example:

Hydromancer set: 60 AL, +15 vs. Water Magic, +30 vs. Water Magic (req 12 water magic)

Its interesting; and the tradeoff is right there in the bonus: If your not using water magic as ur primary skill; you won't get the extra bonus.

Roupe · Mar 18, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

I like the idea of req the same element skill

I also liked the idea of the armor adding extra damage to the spells

And the idea of armor sets that are "transparent" energy shimering like of the various elementents.

Cymboric Treewalker · Mar 18, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

defense spells that suck.

You sir have not really used them then... I use the ele defensive spells and can take on five Hydras outside Augury rock solo... they rarely even damage me.

menelik_seth · Mar 18, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Well there are many ways we can buff up the elementalist armor. I would have never thought about adding a req; or giving mods that boost dmg... But they are very interesting.

I just hope the devs are following this thread and eventually give the core sets some other bonuses, so they can compete with the factions sets when they are released...

NinjaKai · Mar 19, 2006, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

But the other classes have non-attribute-dependant additional Energy that we don't have. PLUS we have the most energy straining spells EVAR.

The stronger the spell the higher the cost. You can't be expected to be given good energy management aswell. This is where a profession like mesmer comes in handy as your secondary. Every profession has it's weaknesses that can often be solved by the secondary you choose. Not our fault if you can't learn to manage your energy better.